Time to Shut Up--at least for a while

Yesterday was an overwhelming day. I’m afraid I became a little obsessed, going back and forth from Elizabeth’s and Perdito’s blogs, posting comments and reading what others had to say.

I’ve never witnessed such a lengthy and civil debate about abortion. While I doubt anyone’s mind was changed, I do think everyone listened to each other. And at the end of the day a funny thing happened—Elizabeth and I became friends.

The only bad thing, of course, was the arrival of the infamous Holly. I cannot BELIEVE she was waiting in the wings all this time to tell me, ONCE AGAIN, that my son died needlessly and I heartlessly killed him. Elizabeth was appalled and immediately pulled all of her comments and the comments that responded to her, including mine (which I requested--I don't like being that nasty).

Throughout the day, no one questioned the fact that my pregnancy had to be terminated. The only disagreement was about how—the dilation and extraction procedure vs. labor and delivery. Catherine (sorry I couldn’t find the link to your blog—send it to me if you’d like me to link) mentioned that perhaps that argument has more to do with euthanasia than abortion, which is a very valid point.

Interesting fact, by the way—last night, Charlie told me that if his memory serves him correctly, labor and delivery was not an option for me. My health was too fragile to endure the rigors of labor at that point. He’d never mentioned that to me before. Throws yet another light on the situation doesn’t it?

When I began blogging, I was deeply inspired by Julia and her bravery in talking about her son Thomas and fighting for the right to choose. I decided after my sons died that I would also take up that banner and carry on the fight.

I’m glad I did. I don’t personally know many people who have had a “partial birth abortion.” I knew it was a major weapon in the anti-choice arsenal and I thought I could maybe sway some points of view.

And I have. But, not surprisingly, I’m tired. It’s hard to be called a murderer over and over, either directly or indirectly. I bent my fairly brash and pushy personality over backwards yesterday to remain civil to everyone at Elizabeth’s, and even posted a reasonably worded response on Perdito’s blog in the entry he directed to me.

But when Holly showed up, I lost it. I actually threatened her. I was shaking with rage. Charlie was here and he was worried about me.

In recovery, we talk about how “righteous indignation is the dubious luxury of normal men.” It’s true, anger can poison you, especially if you are an alcoholic. It can make taking a drink seem like a reasonable thing to do. At best, anger knocks me off my spiritual center. Since my spiritual center is pretty goddamned flimsy these days, it doesn’t take much to knock me down.

I realized I spent most of yesterday feeling toxic. So I’m going to set the banner of a woman’s right to choose aside until I have regained some trust in my higher power and a little smidgen of faith again. And because anger can be so toxic, I’m going to utilize a tried and true spiritual trick to help rid me of my anger toward Holly.

I’m going to pray for her. I’m going to pray that she receives everything in her life that I want in mine—health, peace, happiness, financial security, unending love. I’m going to do it every day for two weeks. If I still have the anger to her at that point, I’ll do it for another two weeks. Not because she deserves it—but because I deserve to be free of her.

Tune in tomorrow for a fun-filled post about my fucking weight. I will even post some photos of me from the 80’s. OK?

Comments

[Sarah]

1.

You are a beautiful, charitable woman, Cecily.

And I was so impressed when I went to Elizabeth's blog last night to find Holly's comment after you told me about it, and found that Elizabeth had wisely deleted it. The discussion over there was fascinating to read, and the respect was profound. I'm glad she knew not to sully it with someone as insane as Holly.

Love you!

[Deborah]

2.

You're a bigger person than I am, Cecily. (And I am NOT talking about your weight.) Lemme know how that praying thing works out. I'm more of a "stew and brew" kind of gal myself, but always open to new approaches!

[Rivka]

3.

Cecily, you are a wonderful person.
YOU ARE A WONDERFUL PERSON.

[Toni]

4.

Sounds like a plan. I'm so sorry this has been so rough. It's almost like you're having to re-experience all the trauma of losing the boys again. I shake with anger at the very thought of anyone accusing you of doing wrong in that situation, and I for one, am damned glad you are alive (and I'm betting Charlie feels that way, too). I'm just so sorry people can be such total fuckholes. The praying for those who make us feel hatred thing? Thanks for reminding me to do that. It's helped me in the past, too. You continually inspire me, Cecily.

[Jen/VintageUterus]

5.

You are a strong, wise and wonderful woman, Cecily. I'm sorry you're enduring wrath from this woman sent from the depths of right-wing hell. Cunt.

Oh, sorry. Trying to be peaceful.

Cunt. Can't help myself....

Good for you for being able to say a prayer for her. I don't know if I could do it.

Again, you amaze me.

Hope you find some peace today.

[Catherine]

6.

I'll pray for Holly too. I'll fervently and sincerely pray that she gets hit by a truck. How's that?

[Ellen]

7.

Cecily, what a wonderful post. You are amazing, and I think you're spot on, too - I was thinking a lot about self-righteousness after yesterday's debate, too. I agree, maybe not a lot of minds were changed (that's very difficult to achieve, given that topic and the ire it brings out), but people really did listen to each other, and tried very hard to find middle ground. There was a lot of talk about sisterhood and finding ways to support each other, something you are clearly carrying out by praying for Holly. God bless you for it. It's a pretty amazing response.

[Kitten]

8.

I'm sorry that people feel they have to tell you things just to be hurtful with no thought about how the other person is affected by thier comments. But my opinion is that goes along with being that far right and pro-life. Worried about someone that isn't even born, but no care for the mother already here. So why should Holly worry about hurting anyone.

You don't deserve that crap, no one does. Keep writing! (Side note, I love the layout of your blog!)

[Elizabeth]

9.

I know what you mean, Cecily. Yesterday's debate drained me emotionally, too - and I wasn't even really involved.

I'm very impressed that you are going to pray for Holly. Were I in your place, I sincerely hope (although I doubt) that I could bring myself to do the same.

You are both women struggling with infertility, and there is so much more to us than our opinions on this issue. I'm glad we've been able to make friends in spite of it. I'll be hanging around, sending lots of love your way. You deserve the best.

[Elizabeth]

10.

Oops, I'm an idiot. That should have been "You and I are both women struggling with infertility."

[Jill]

11.

I'm so proud of you! What a loving decision, even if you only think it is to help yourself. And you're right - it will help you at least as much as it helps her. Meanwhile, you are in My prayers.

[Lisa]

12.

Cupcake, you are a bigger woman than I. However, I am sure I have the larger ass.
Wishing some peace comes soon to you. You deserve it.

[Elizabeth]

13.

Oh, and also! I would love to see pictures of you from the 80s. Awesome.

[Michelle]

14.

Having a bad day myself and your entry gave me some peace. That's a beautiful attitude.

Holly still sucks, but you just continue to show what an amazing woman you are.

And 80's pics? I'll be refreshing all day! :)

[Ninotchka]

15.

Jesus, you rock, Cecily. You really, really do.

[Amy]

16.

You are a pretty amazing woman to be able to pray for her. I will try too. And I will try NOT to pray that something really, really bad happens to her. Please take care of yourself today.

[Lily]

17.

Oh honey.
YOU DID THE RIGHT THING.
You had no choice. Death is not a choice of the mentally competent. Suicide is not a choice. It's an anti-choice. It's the most unbelievably selfish act on the planet. You're not selfish. You did the only thing you could. You chose to not leave your husband and family. Not an option.

Anyone who could possiby believe otherwise is very simply WRONG. Their picture needs to be in the dictionary next to the word wrong. Incorrect. I shudder to think anyone that stupid can actually walk on two legs. No God I would ever believe in could possibly have wanted you to do any different.

I could go on forever. The plain fact is, if there is a correct sense of Right Vs. Wrong in the brain, you know what you did is unquestionably right. End of story.

[grumpygirl, aka alyssa]

18.

cecily, you're a brave woman. and likely a far nicer woman than i am. my blood's been boiling since i first saw perdito's nauseating blog.

[DMouse]

19.

I am amazed at just how civilised that discussion was. Shocking.

You are a far better person than me if you can pray for her. I hope it helps you. I'm going with the poster who prays she gets hit by a truck.

I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures!

[Jo-Ann]

20.

Wow I missed alot the past few days......

You are amazing to try and turn the Holly negative (and that is a big negative) to a positive. Cecily I am glad you had a choice and you're here to fight for that choice for others.

Love you girl

Jo-Ann

[Leslie]

21.

You and Charlie have shown enormous strength in the face of incredible sadness. I'm sorry Holly feels the need to judge and second guess what must have been the most difficult decision of your lives.

Please know that there are people praying for you and Charlie as well. Take care of yourselves.

[ktpupp]

22.

I purposely haven't followed the links you posted because I knew I would just get worked up too. I don't need the stress, and neither do you. Take a break for a bit and build up Cecily. You need to be strong for your own benefit, before you can fight for someone else's.

Oooooh, pictures of you from the 80's?!?!?!? I can't wait!!! Maybe I will dig up a few of us together and post them on my blog too! I know I have some real good ones from "back in the day"! ;)

-=kt=-

[beth]

23.

//I'll pray for Holly too. I'll fervently and sincerely pray that she gets hit by a truck. How's that?//

Amen.

[Rachel]

24.

I totally love your approach to dealing with Holly! How enlightened and positive and victimhood-free. I love it.

[alex]

25.

Cecily,

You always have a way of saying the things that we are all feeling but cannot eloquently get out.

That part on you spiritual balance is flimsy these days.... yeah that was a nail on the head moment. Lately my spirituality has been challenged by so many things that repetitively knock me over..I just cannot stand up because one more thing swings in and whack I am down again.....my infertility, my dog, a friend's issues, your tradgedy, etc. My whole life has been a challenge. These days one harsh word just sets me up into a tizzy. Then I act out like I typically would not, and then I feel guilty.

I just love your blatant descriptions on where you are day to day...so refreshing to read ones accounts of their inner world...thanks alex

[Amanda]

26.

I'm proud of you Cecily :-)

[may]

27.

i too avoided both blogs (though elizabeth sounds amazing, too). i'm afraid i'll get so outraged on your behalf...

and i agree with alex: you really have a way of saying what we're feeling, and much better than i ever could. you are an amazing writer!

[Beth]

28.

I will pray with you for Holly. I firmly believe that hate only hurts the hater in the long run so praying for them is like turning the other cheek or, in a sense, killing the hate with kindness. Also, I think she may be mentally ill. Seriously.

[lorrie]

29.

Funny, I was eating lunch today and thinking of Holly. I am a criminal justice professor with 23 years of experience in the field, and I honestly believe that Holly is a dangerous woman. I mean like take-a-gun-and shoot-abortion-providers type dangerous.

[Sonetka]

30.

I remember seeing Holly's comment and being afraid to post a reply to it because I'd probably have gone completely overboard. *Sigh*. Good on Elizabeth for getting her out of there.

Part of me feels mean and doesn't want to pray for her. The other part says that that's a pretty good sign that I should be.

[jlp]

31.

Cecily, know also that even if you are not actively campaigning (so to speak), the very act of your blogging has helped change (or strengthen) some minds on the choice front.

A friend of mine, who in the past I would've described as uneasily prochoice, asked me about the so called "partial birth abortion," about which he was rather upset. I was able to point him at statistics, on late term abortions thanks to the Guttmacher Institute (www.agi-usa.org), and I was able to show him a specific narrative that explained why someone might have to have a late term D&E, thanks to your blog.

Due to our discussion, he went from being uneasily prochoice to firmly prochoice.

I don't mean to harp on the issue of choice, when you (for the time being) want to take it out of the spotlight -- I just wanted to let you know that your blog has created tangible change in an area that's important to you.

[Janis]

32.

Cecily,

You are an amazing woman.

Pray for Holly? You are far kinder than I...

[Liz]

33.

Not much to say that hasn't been said here already.

So...

Ditto...

And Elizabeth? Good on ya.

[Sandy]

34.

And yet again you show me why I am drawn to you and your blog. Praying for Holly is exactly the right (and hardest) thing to do, but my experience has been that's where the peace is found.

And so weird that you mention about posting pictures from the 80's today! The post yesterday on my blog about the old boyfriend? Well today he sent me my own high school graduation picture by email. I was tempted to post it myself on my blog...I was so teeny then!

[Joanne]

35.

Holly's behavior reminds me of the people who protested Matthew Shepherd's funeral. You've endured unspeakable tragedy NOT of your own doing, and she thinks, hey, why don't I make it much worse? If there's a definition of real evil, that's it. She may not deserve your prayer, but she certainly needs it. I'm very sorry.

[Dana]

36.

I'm with Catherine and Beth.

Karma wise I think Holly'd better watch it. Nothing like mouthing off on a subject you've had the luxury of pontificating about from your chair to get your thrown in the middle of some bad juju.

[Caitlin]

37.

Cecily,

Even though I'm younger and haven't even had to opportunity to know whether fertility will be an issue for me in the future, I have always found your site to be informative and thought-provoking. I have never left your site feeling as if I wasted my time or as if I'd already heard what you had to say from someone else's thoughts. Your story is so unlike anyone else's.

In my heart, I believe you did the right thing. I am grateful that you put yourself out here to share a part of your life that many have found to be so controversial. People need to be informed, and they need to learn from the experiences of others.

My thoughts are with you, and hope that you achieve what you wish to (be it a successful pregnancy, weight loss, whatever) soon.

[amy]

38.

Sigh. When will Holly once and for all crawl under the rock she deserves to be under??

[Lisa L.]

39.

Cecily, thank you for for all you have done to inform your readers that things are not always in black and white. Grey areas exist and I will argue that some "choices" are not exactly real choices, especially when all of the options suck.

In Oct. 2002 I found that my baby daughter had a fatal birth defect and was not going to survive. I was given a choice and delivered my baby early. Given the options, my husband and I felt it was the right choice for us and our future. I met Julia (Uncommon Misconception) online shortly after that and I have a great respect for her and her drive to bring attention to the "gray" areas of this matter. She is my hero and I applaud her fight to protect a mother's choice, my choice, especially by bringing it into the public eye.

I applaud you too, Cecily, for putting yourself out there. It has to be hard to open yourself up for public scrutiny, especially when you get lumped in with the whole abortion catagory. It doesn't feel fair to have to make the choices that we have had to make, especially when our only hope was to have a healthy baby to hold. I never thought that I would have to make a decision like I did and I hoped that I would never be put in that situation again. Sadly, my son suffered the same fatal defect as my daughter and we again had to make a choice. I delivered him Nov. 2004, election day to be exact. I'm glad I was still able to have a choice (even though it was from a crappy list) and I hope that right is never taken away. For the record, my husband and I were both able to vote by absentee ballot since I was in the hospital.

Sorry, didn't mean to make this too long, but I just wanted to say thank you. My pain is still very fresh, and I'm sure yours is as well, so I know how difficult it must be to defend yourself. But you are doing a great job and I appreciate it!

[-Blue]

40.

As many others said: you're definately a better woman than I. I have absolutely no sympathy for H*lly. She can fall over and die for all I care. I admire you and hope this helps YOU get over what you need to get over. Fuck her.

I also agree with Beth that H*lly is mentally ill. We'll be reading about her in the papers after a bit. I just hope she doesn't hurt anyone else.

I also agree with Dana ... H*lly will get what's coming to her. And despite everyone's prayers, it won't be nice. It won't be nice at all.

*shrug* But all of this is her choice.

[the HT]

41.

I remember when Holly first appeared. I immediately knew she was full of shit when she said, "I would have chosen something different." Yeah, right. I knew, from having a doctor as a family member, that she didn't have a clue and was talking out of her ass.

Doctors are in the business of saving lives. Your boys were not viable; you were. Even in the current anti-choice environment in which we live, can you imagine if Charlie had told them to continue? I don't think it would have happened because it would have been truly negligent behavior on their part and you all would have died. (And trust me, they would have forced the issue of not continuing in any number of scenarios.) Aside from it being against the Oath and the wrong thing to do, hospitals don't want to open themselves to that liability.

I haven't gone to the abortion debate because my blood pressure is high enough. My views about abortion are quite simple: because the woman carries the child, the decision should be between the woman, her own God, and her doctor.

What you faced is the classic example, and it's one that gives anti-choicers the most pause, although most of them would *let* a woman terminate to save her own life.

Grrrl is right. Someone *needs* to review each decision because women can't be trusted to make these decisions for themselves.

I even see it on this page. It's *okay* for you, a woman who desperately wanted a child, to terminate because you wanted a child. But many are uncomfortable with *letting* some woman terminate just because she doesn't want a child. Shame on her for having sex, anyway.....

I say, let the woman decide.

I'm rambling.

As usual, I am awed by your gentle spirit.

[Kris]

42.

I don't even know what to say. The fact that some people would be so crass as to tell you ... I just don't know. It scares me what this world has come to. Quite often I feel as if it is an us against them world (that was a lot of two-letter words, huh). Please know that there are so many of us on your side. Know that we are here with you and we are praying for you too. Charlie is a lucky man.

[ms pickled eggs]

43.

"I say, let the woman decide."

Absofuckinglutely.

Cecily, you've handled all of this with remarkable restraint. I'm so sorry for your loss, and I'm sorry that evil trolls have tried to make it even harder for you.

You rock!

[beachgal]

44.

Haven't been here in a while, and had to do some catching up, but I wonder something.

A few days ago, there was a Holly that made some nasty comments over at Dooce.com. Wonder if it's the same person. Not sure where to link curious folk to, but it was something along the lines that Dooce was very selfish in having a baby when she knew about her mental issues and what effect they could have on her child. She got tore up over there, so it seems like, if it's the same person, she enjoys that kinda thing.

I don't believe she left an email or other contact info over at dooce, so I can't confirm.

And good for you Cecily for handling yourself so well with all the stuff. I would have been a lot more hateful I think.

[holly]

45.

Why oh why does everyone think I am mentally ill, hmmm? Just because I state firmly that you are all wrong in your assumption that babies have to die without being given a chance to live??? As if I would ever kill anything- oh yeah, the rampage on an abortion clinic. I am PRO LIFE people. I am not mentally unstable. As a matter of fact I think I am more mentally ON than most of the readers here. I am a mother of 6 who had a horrible miscarriage and found you all through blogs of others. And I think there has been enough proof that the "all babies die under blah blah weeks" isnt true. If your theory that the baby would die anyway, why not give it a chance at life? You think your child would suffer needlessly, well thats absurd. Once it was born, it would have been given respect and anesthesia. I think he suffered a little more pain dying the way he did. So, if you are holding to the "he would die no matter what" theory, why not at least have given him more of a chance than you did. I am not stalking you or just waiting to spew more of my unstable rubbish. Good grief..I am a little more busy than that. However, I will never agree that what you did was fine. And others have emailed me firmly agreeing I am right, but they dont want to write here because they dont like being attacked. Well, I am a big girl and can handle all your mean words etc. They dont bother me. Its worth it to me to have someone reading change their mind to my way of thinking, just as much as it is to you, cecily. Your firm in choice for death and I am firm in choice for life...at least a chance of it.

[holly]

46.

And no, I am not the same holly as dooce's. I dont have any problems with her whatsoever. God gave her a baby, and thats just okay with me.

[Jen]

47.

Cecily,
I'm with you on the right to choose, but I hope that the type of civil discussion between people that happened between Elizabeth's blog and your blog can continue. I just wish that everyone would realize that they can be against something and not to have to outlaw it. I'm sorry that the asshole Holly showed up for what was a very civil discussion of the different sides of the issue. It didn't change my mind, but I also try to think of pro-life people as just that - people.

[Nance]

48.

Holly is a nut-job. It's easy for her to be judgmental in her world; she's never been faced with the decision you and Charlie had to make. She has no right to second guess you. None.

I'm sorry her ignorance upset you.

[Anne Basso]

49.

Cecily, You and I disagree on some issues, but I appreciated your ability to discuss it so civilly at Elizabeth's blog and privately. You have a great sense of humor, and obviously are a strong and intellegent woman. I'm keeping you and all the other IF gals in my prayers!

[ms pickled eggs]

50.

I'm convinced Holly is really a lonely, middle aged man who sits in grubby trackpants, wanking over cheerleaders and trolling people to fill the void in his life.

[Gina]

51.

Funny how Holly says she's far too busy to be stalking you, but for months now she's still reading and harassing people who she "found through other blogs." Usually when I find a blog I don't like I don't go back to it.

Holly, this is exactly why they say something is wrong with you mentally. Obviously you need and want, for whatever strange reason, to harass and hurt people. NOT MENTALLY HEALTHY. There are no minds to change here, so I don't think you're fooling anyone into thinking that's your real motive.

Best wishes to you Cecily. Not sure if I've ever posted here before, but I, too, am inspired.

[lorrie]

52.

You know what?

Carefully analyzing "Holly"--I think it IS a man.

Consider the word "horrible" as applied to a miscarriage. If Holly had given birth to 6 children, I doubt if a miscarriage would have caused intense pain (to compare with labor). If Holly was talking about the intense emotional pain, wouldn't a woman have written "heartbreaking"?

And would a woman refer to herself as a "big girl"? Or as a "grown woman". Doesn't "big girl" sound like a word that a wacko Right Wing Keep Them Barefoot etc. would use to refer to a woman.

And the fact that Holly is obviously lying about receiving so many supportive emails clues me in that v. little could be true in "her" post.

Just killing time here....

[elizabeth]

53.

I always knew that there were people that have Perlito's views, but I never really went out of my way to hear or read them. I don't know why I'm in such shock, but I am really blown away. I don't really understand where Christianity picked up "life starts at conception" or the fetus's life should come before the life of the mother. Judaism, the mother religion of Christianity, is very clear that the mother's life comes before the life of the fetus. No ifs or buts. Judaism is also very clear that the embryo is "like water" for the first 40 days after conception. For example, when I had left over embryos after my last IVF cycle that I wanted to donate, I could discard them. I could donate them to research or donate them to any couple. That includes atheist, agnostic, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. Why? Because my religion says that the embryos have no status. So if the original (not watered down version) old testament is clear on this and Christianity also uses the old testament, could someone please explain to me where the "life starts after conception" and where the "fetus's life comes before the mothers" bit comes from. Seriously.

The other thing I don't understand is why people like Holly are so arrogant to believe that everyone else should follow their beliefs? This is a country of religious freedom. If you want to follow your religion, fine practice your religion. However, everyone else should be able to practice or not practice whatever beliefs they have. Please don't go on a tangent about black magic or the extreme-right that all religions have, because that’s not what I’m talking about.

Cecily, I'm coming out of lurker mode to say how sorry I am of what you have had to endure. I'm sorry for your loss. I'm sorry of the viciousness of some of your readers. I really wonder if Holly's daughter was in your position, would Holly really say, "sorry dear, but your fetus's life is more important. I'll miss you dear and make sure that your fetus is well taken care of. Oh, unless you both die and then I'll just have you buried together."

I just don't get where some people get off. I'm truly scared for my freedom and my children's freedom.

Elizabeth

[holly]

54.

Its not me wanting anyone here to follow my religion! Its about babies...letting them live! You certainly dont have to be religious to have a baby, so you certainly dont have to follow one to keep it. Its a moral thing. Have good morals-make good decisions. Well, I guess it IS about religion in my sense, however. I feel God is the God of all life and He is the only one to make the decision to end it, not humans. However, even if your not religious, then its still not ethical to kill an unborn baby for any reason. Not your decision. Oh, and I love the lady who thinks I am a man. What a hoot. Just because of my writing style and words I use? Good grief! I am who I say I am, like it or not. I am just not that creative to make an alter ego. But thanks anyway.

[elizabeth]

55.

Holly,

It IS about your religion. I am religious. I am moral. I am an Orthodox Jew. My religion believes you don’t have a choice to abort or not if the mother’s life is in danger. It MANDATES that the mother have an abortion. See the difference is that I wouldn’t judge or try to criminalize your decision, because it’s your choice and your body.

Elizabeth

[brooke]

56.

i'm delurking, to make a simple statement.

how can anyone make such judgements on what someone has done in their lives... someone who is so far removed from that person's life? really. i think its time we all think about the live and let live philosophy. offer support, be kind, but if you don't have anything nice to say, keep it to yourself. what good do cruel comments do besides hurt someone? too many people have lost their basic sense of humanity. too many people forget that there are people and real lives beyond these screens. if we were to all be civil and kind and supportive of each other, even in disagreement, this world would be a much better place.

goddess.. that is so full of cliches.. but sometimes cliches are good. *sigh*