A General Rant In Which I Prove Yet Again That I Am A Screaming Liberal

This morning I drove to work directly behind a mini-van that had several bumper stickers. One said “On Fire for God!” and I though, aw, that’s cute. But another said: “Marriage equals man + woman.” And another said “Detour Around Sin.”

I was already thinking about the whole issue of homosexuality and gay marriage after watching ER last night. For those who don’t (you fools, you!), one of the characters finally found her birth mother, only to have her birth mother reject her because she is gay. The birth mother offered to pray for her daughter, and the daughter said, “Why don’t you pray for the limitations of your faith instead?" (yeah liberal media!).

I’ll admit it: I do not understand opposition to homosexuality and gay marriage and I never will. When I hear people argue about it, about how it’s “unnatural” I know that they are simply wrong. After all, science has proven that there is a small percentage of homosexuality in most mammals, so how could it possibly be unnatural? Besides, who cares? Today's society is all about fighting what's natural. Do you think me spending eight hours a day in front of a computer screen is natural?

People say that allowing gay marriage will cause a disintegration of the American Family (whatever the FUCK that is). I live on a diverse block. Right next door to me are two gay men that have been “married” and living together for many years. How on earth is their “marriage” hurting mine? I mean, seriously? What in the fuck does it have to do with me, other than the fact that maybe their gayness means my house looks like a complete dump next to theirs? If they chose to parent, they would wonderful at it, judging by how they treat their dog. I’m proud to live next door to them (even though they show me up—you should see their garden in spring. sigh).

This all drives me crazy. I know I’m on the far left edge of liberal—I believe people really are transgendered. I think that gay people should be allowed to marry, adopt, and divorce just like the rest of us. I think we should pay for healthcare for everyone, and yes, I’d be happy to pay more taxes to do so. I think we should take care of our old people. I think a black, gay, transgendered woman could make a great president. I think all drug addicts should go to treatment facilities instead of prison. Hell, I think drugs should be legal. Prostitution too.

This nation--very, very soon--will no longer welcome me or my opinions.

Charlie and I were talking this morning about the way the nation is becoming so full of rules and hatred and anger toward people we love and think are just fine the way they are. We talked about how we also feel fiercely patriotic, that this is our nation too, how we want to be a part of changing it and creating a better future here.

But we also talked about how we won’t be willing to raise our children in a nation that no longer has a separation of church and state (I believe in a loving and tolerant God that thinks he/she has no business being in politics).

Did you know the IRS is investigating the head of the NAACP because he said negative things about our president? They want to evaluate the legitimacy of their non-profit status (non-profit organizations are forbidden to formally endorse or oppose any candidates for office).

But are they investigating the Catholic Church for their election day handouts that said you couldn’t vote for Kerry because he’s pro-choice? How about the Mormon Church for telling their congregations to rally behind (and giving $3.6 million to) passing Proposition 22 pass in California in 2000?

Or what about the organizations that are sending millions to Canada to fight the legalization of gay marriage?

They may be, but not like they are going after the NAACP. They also claim there is no political motivation. Yeah. I’m SURE.

All I know, is I’m not sure how much longer I can call a place so full of hate home.

Comments

[Sarah]

1.

You rock! I love this post, and totally agree, 100%. It is truly scary that this country has elected--again--a president who is so obsessed with his agenda and manipulating the public into mass hysteria over divisive issues.
I have to believe things can get better. That we can help make them better. What scares me most is the thought: WHAT/WHO WILL HE TARGET NEXT??

[wix]

2.

yes, yes, yes, yes, yes...

there are a lot of Us out there. the sad fact is that we're just not as organized as Them. and i do believe we are now at the point where it is very much Us vs. Them. there are a few folks on their side of the fence who don't like what's happening, either, for the record, but They are trying their damnedest to push the non-fundies out.

i could go on, but i'll spare you, at least until i can organize my thoughts more coherently.

[Erin]

3.

"People say that allowing gay marriage will cause a disintegration of the American Family."

That sentiment just kills me! As if heterosexual marriage is such a grand institution that is upheld by all in this country! As an unmarried woman in her 20s, believe me when I say that the divorce rate in this country is frightening, and the last time I checked, those divorces (and the resulting broken families) were of heterosexual couples. I'm very apprehensive about getting married knowing that I'm going into it with a 50% (or less) chance of it succeeding.

But OH NO! We can't let gay people get married because it's going to bring down our society. Has anyone stopped to consider that maybe it will improve our current state of affairs? I'm all for stable American families, no matter who the family members are.

Well, I guess I just proved I'm a screaming liberal right along there with you, Cecily. Sorry for the rant.

[anon]

4.

I have always respected your voice even when I do not agree. You have very strong convictions and that should be applauded. I do not agree with you on everything but I do agree that there is alot of hatred in this country, but it goes both ways. There is hatred spewed at conservatives and liberals alike. There is intolerance and bias and hypocrisy alike. There was a homeowner in our town fined for having the nativity scene up while the city was bathed in the Star of David. They said it was offensive and blamed it on his being a christain republican. There are so many more stories like this that I know of to show that not all "liberal tolerance" is real. I would like to extend an olive branch, you work on the hateful liberals and I will work on the hateful conservatives. Despite our differences of opionion we can try to make a difference! Okay enough sugar coating ( I am actually feeling a little nausea) :) Hope you have a great day and I know if you put your mind to it your garden can look better than anyones!!!!

[Janis]

5.

I have a sister that is a lesbian. She and her partner have been together for almost 2 years now.

They exchanged rings, had a private commitment ceremony as that is all they are allowed by law to do.

How does their being together hurt me or my marriage? How does their being together hurt anyone?

Why is their love, which is strong and deep, their commitment, which as taken as seriously as mine, mean any less? Why is it wrong?

All I know is that my sister who always felt like the odd one out, and felt as if her life was pointless and had no meaning, has someone who loves her for who she is. Fully, completely and without reservation. She is loved... Which deep down, is what we all want... Right?

They do everything my husband and I do. (except parent but that will come in time they hope) They live together, work, pay bills, taxes. They do volunteer work. They have friends, eat sleep, play. They are just like any other couple. They both just happen to be female.

Yet because of that, they are punished. They are singled out, held up to ridicule, told they are evil sinners who are going to hell.

*sigh*

I just don't get it either, Cecily.

[Catherine]

6.

I think if the Repugs want to ban gay marriage
because it "subverts the sanctity of marriage", we should start a movement to pass a constitutional amendment to ban divorce. That subverts the sanctity of marriage, too, right? Make it retroactive, too, just to be sure. That means that all 2nd marriages are null and
void and all first marriages automatically renistated. Any children born to 2nd or subsequent marriages should just be tossed into the woods to fend for themselves. Jeebus will clearly not smile on them.

[Anne]

7.

What always kills me is when conservatives say “what’s next if we allow homosexual marriage, marriage to animals?” Um yeah okay, whatever. I mean really I just don’t get how they make that kind of leap.

That and if a couples marriage is so shaky that it could be torn asunder by some homosexual couple .... well I just don’t know if those people should have even gotten married in the first place.

I guess I got things really wrong in Catholic school all those years b/c I keep thinking that Jesus’ message was one of peace, love, and tolerance. Oh silly me.

[Ren]

8.

Interesting post, Cecily. I'm conservative, but don't really have a problem with gay marriage. They can do as they please, for all I care. I also agree that people are horribly hypocritical on this issue by not fighting no-fault divorce and yet fighting homosexual marriage.

What I DO take issue with is the church right now. As a Christian, I believe that the Bible clearly calls homosexual sex sinful, just as it does premarital sex or adultery. (It's no more of a sin or no less of sin than either of those examples.) If someone doesn't believe in the Bible, fine, do as you please. But if you're going to be a Christian, then obey what it says and be celibate unless you're married (which, according to my interpretation of the Bible, is heterosexual marriage). I'm the first to admit it's hard, but also an example that it's doable--I'm in my twenties and still a virgin. Anyway, sorry to take up space in your comment section about my personal beliefs...just wanted to say that there are some conservative Christians out there who don't believe in legislating our beliefs to everyone else.

[Peach]

9.

Ren hit the nail on the head: "...don't believe in legislating our beliefs to everyone else." It's about the legislation. I don't care how many people (of any political stance) hate/love/revere/ignore homosexuals. That is perfectly within their right. It's when those people try to legislate that belief to others where it crosses the line.

This is *not* a "majority rules" country, it's a democratic republic, and the founders declared that there are certain inalienable rights that should NEVER be infringed - even if the "majority" doesn't like them. I think lifestyle choices that do not infringe upon others' rights certainly falls under that category.

[Emily]

10.

I always wondered if they had ever found evidence of homosexuality in animals- Nice Link! Thanks so much for a post that sparked some great comments- I would totally marry an animal given the option- a female animal at that- I think a female peguin would be my first choice!

[Miriam]

11.

I caught ER too -- ouch. My girlfriend and I love Carrie Weaver. She's become a very three-dimensional character over time. One thing I wish, though, is that they hadn't made it seem that Carrie's lesbianism was entirely antithetical with religion/Christianity of any kind. There are many Christian denominations and churches and individuals who are open-minded and -hearted, and who believe in blessing same-sex unions.

My girlfriend and I are engaged, and plan to have a big ceremony (in a church) in a couple of years. I don't understand why we can't just recognize that the two aspects of marriage, civil and religious, can be kept entirely separate -- no church is obligated to acknowledge our marriage, but our church certainly will, and our government certainly should.

To the previous commenter, on the subject of Christianity and homosexuality, I respect your right to your opinion, and I appreciate YOUR respect and most of all your understanding that your religious belief should not dictate the law. However, from my years of religious study, I have discovered that A) Jesus said absolutely nothing about homosexuality, and B) most of the prohibitions of "men lying with men" (they had no word for it) are enmeshed in the purity laws of Leviticus, which also say we should not wear mixed fabrics and women should cover their heads and all sorts of things we don't follow now. I would say that the single issue that the bible, Old and New Testament, prophets and Jesus and all, spend the most time discussing is poverty/caring for the disenfranchised -- what if we decided to treat that as the most important issue for religion (and society) to deal with? Whew, there's my liberal rant for the day. Thanks, Cecily, I needed that.

[Catherine]

12.

Miriam: fucking WORD. That is all.

[ThreeBees]

13.

Saw this interview on Buzzflash.com today and thought you would be interested. It relates to this topic in its discussion of separation of churh and state and the legislating of moral values.

http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/05/02/int05007.html

Great post! Very well articulated. I 100% agree.

[ASM]

14.

Ugh. I hear you. And this is why, when I am finished my degree, I am sailing right on back to Canada from whence I came (even if I wasn't born there). That is, if the Religious Right doesn't transform it into America, Jr. first.

[grumpygirl]

15.

i'm here with you on this one, too. i just really don't get why gay marriage hurts other marriage. WTF?

[cursingmama]

16.

When I see those men marching against abortion because God says its wrong I want to ask why they get to pick and choose what parts of religion get used and how they get applied to everyone else.
For example the Catholic church teaches that sex is for procreation not recreation, therefore you don't need birth control; if the wives of these men stopped having sex with them because they're done having kids imagine how well that would go over.

[Sarah]

17.

Sing it Cecily! Thank you for an awesome post (as usual).

[Jessica]

18.

I entirely approve of gay marriage. In Germany, where I come from, we at least have civil unions - a step in the right direction. Nor do I understand what all the fuss is about, anyways.

Sometimes the gay "community" makes me laugh, though. Right now, they're protesting the addition of some female penguins to established "gay" penguin couples in a zoo in Bremerhaven. The penguins are endangered, and the zoo takes part in an international breeding program/exchange. Some Gay organizations seem to think they are doing it out of prejudice! :)

I guess when you're surrounded by hate and prejudice all your life, you start jumping at shadows. I probably would.

[DMouse]

19.

I agree with all of your post.

I have never understood how gay marriage can threaten heterosexual marriages. Admittedly, I have never really understood why homosexuals would want to take part in a ritual endorsed by a group that treats them so badly either, but I just don't get the big deal.

[erin]

20.

Cecily, you've hit the nail on the head, once again. Bravo. It's like a vulcan mind-meld ('cept ya' don't know me.)

Last night, I was afraid to watch ER, because I'm an adoptive mom and I had concerns regarding the show's treatment of adoption. (I have issues with the mainstream media's portrayal of infertility/crazy-woman-lurking-in-the-wings-to-steal-your-baby.) I was really touched at the way the show identified the loss that stays with many adoptive children even when they have relatively normal and happy lives. The birthmother's rejection of Karrie's sexuality was like suffering a second loss of her birthmother.

It's also funny you should mention the nature-thing in regard to homosexuality. Homosexuality occurs in nature all the time. Bonobo monkeys engage in homosexual behavior as a course of daily life, as a replacement for aggression. There are other examples to numerous to mention.

Interestin how the whole "but it's unnatural" argument/whine is used to justify zealous ideals that don't survive under logical analysis. I recently got a rather loathesome e-mail from the anti-adoption folks that adoption was "unnatural." Umm, whatever. Adoption happens in nature all the time, even across species.

I truly don't understand who/what gay marriage hurts. The net return on gay marriage is more stable and long-term relationships. There is evidence and/or literature out there discussing the beneficial economic impact of a stable relationship on workplace performance and the mainstream economy. Marriage = more money for the man. Why is Dubbya against that?

Why, Jim, it's just not logical.

[Jodi]

21.

My best friend is a lesbian in a committed relationship with my cousin. They have three girls between them. I see nothing but a loving, healthy family. For someone else to judge them based on antiquated values is ignorant.

I strongly believe that homosexuality is genetic. I am sure no one chooses to be different. No one chooses to be ridiculed. We need more tolerance in this world, not laws that support hatred. The church has no place in polotics.

[Charlie]

22.

Well phrased post, baby.

The hysteria that has been generated over the gay marriage issue was/is a political ploy used (quite successfully) to motivate many religious conservatives to go to the polls. Painting gay marriage as a threat, and implying that "the American family is in jeopardy" (even if it is among the biggest lies in history) is an effective motivating tool. The American family, if anyone was actually worried, is safe and sound. If there are any doubts, just go to Friendly's on a Saturday night. Or see how minivan sales are holding up.

Finally, consider this...if there were some way for oil companies to make money from gay marriage, the GOP would be all in favor of it.

[Deborah]

23.

I have gay men living next door to me who I fondly refer to as my "gaybors." They make a mean Cosmopolitan and have done wonderful things for property values.

But seriously, your post? Spot on.

[Croupier]

24.

Agoddamnmotherfuckinmen.

[Karen]

25.

I often tell my husband that if we have any boys, I want one of them to be gay. I seem to get along very well with gay men.

Excellent post. YOu know I agree with every word.

[Chantal]

26.

Erin and Catherine's comments regarding the state of marriage today and banning divorce are so true (as is your entire post, Cecily). I've yet to see anyone from any "council" on what is "right" give ME a shining example of the nuclear family.

I'm very proud to be Canadian. We're moving forward with same-sex marriage laws and it's about time. What baffles me is that so many Canadians and Americans still misunderstand what the law is all about. It's about legal fundamental rights to choose who you spend your life with - not about forcing "The Church" to marry same-sex couples!

I commented recently about my struggles as a Catholic and even thought of leaving the Church, but I'm going to plug through and try to do my best to lobby for change. I will be a liberal thorn in their side. I probably won't affect much change, but I will try.

Keep up the dialogue, Cecily!

[Moxie]

27.

Ren, the Bible includes prohibitions against homosexual male rape and gay promiscuity (although that one is actually most likely against adult/child promiscuity, not two adult males). There's nothing about homosexual relationships. It is also important to take the Bible *in context* and to realize that it wasn't sent down to us verbatim from God on a few big stone tablets, but paraphrased by human beings, who had/have many many biases of their own which infiltrate the Bible. Have you read the letters of Paul? He hates women, sex, and pretty much anything havign to do with the human body.

Why are we so worried about people's genitals when we should be concerned with our own minds and hearts?

I loved ER last night. My favorite part was when the birth mother said she found out that Kerry's father had died. Kerry answered, without thinking, "Oh, no, my father died years ago."

I wish that the producers of the show would send her to church and find her a new partner there. That's my favorite part of Six Feet Under, that Keith and David met in church. There are happy long-term gay couples that have met each other at my church, too.

Personally, I'm hoping the hate forces push too far and get smashed down in the next few years.

[elizabeth]

28.

plus, this is the same goverment (well, in KS anyways) that is trying to controlthe teaching of evolution and whatnot. asnine.

[Sandy]

29.

I'm so glad for this post, and for the comments, especially the clarifying ones from Miriam and Chantal. I posted about the offense that I took to being forced to listen as someone preached against this from the pulpit in my Catholic Church here in Canada a few weeks ago. I take offense to the flyers people keep trying to hand us when we walk into the church (and can I just say take such pride in my awesome, liberal minded husband who refused to take said flyer!!!). I take offense to the Church getting involved with the 'state' issue here. No one is asking the catholic church to recognize a civil marriage period. They won't recognize a civil heterosexual marriage, so excuse me, why get all hung up about same sex civil marriage?

Your other point is also so poignant Cecily. It's hard to think about raising children in such an intolerant world. I, for one though, am going to take great pride in turning these two little guys we have in our lives (through an invalid second marriage should that retro divorce idea above go through...which I also love as an argument!) into the most liberal minded, tolerant, loving people possible. We can already see it happening!

[Liz]

30.

Great post Cecily (and others!)

I don't get the gay marriage thing issue. I find celebrity marriage WAY more harmful to the sanctity of marriage than the relationships of my gay friends.

Keep Britney Spears out of Vegas!!

[Liz]

31.

Um - in the above post, "issue" should have been "either."

Not quite sure where my fingers were when I was typing.

Proceed...

[Kathleen]

32.

That our President can get up and justify a spurious foriegn policy under the guise of a commitment to expand the freedoms and liberties of the worlds people while in the same speech saying he supports restricting the freedoms and liberties of Gay/Lesbian Americans is both astonishing and sad.

Gay and lesbian marriage does not threaten the fabric of America. Legalizing intolerance does.

[Cricket]

33.

Did you see the one today about the "gay" penguins?

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050211/od_uk_nm/oukoe_life_germany_penguins_2

Bogus anti-liberal media thing going on. The biology is simple. The penguin tribe has too few females and the males traditionally carry/warm the eggs on their feet. If there is no egg, the penguin substitutes a rock, puts it on his feet, and walks in the same shuffling manner as an egg-warming male. They just want to procreate as programmed.

What I hate is the slant, the spin. They want to generalize the attitudes toward gayness onto normal penguin behavior so that the media and people's imaginations will notice.

[Meg]

34.

You and Charlie are more then welcome up here in Canada by my books, but you know, we Canadians also need the lefty Americans to stay at home and work for the country they want the States to be.

[jc]

35.

I don't understand the "sanctity of marriage" argument used by opponents of gay marriage. I got married in Las Vegas and let me tell you, the sanctity is already long gone! Wait, let me rephrase that: I believe that the sanctity of marriage comes from the couple taking the vows, not the person performing the ceremony. How can a civil ceremony between two loving homosexual adults in a committed relationship be more of a threat to the institution of marriage than a quicky wedding between strangers performed by an Elvis impersonator who was ordained online? (just for the record, my husband and I didn't meet at the blackjack tables - and I didn't see any Elvii until we were on our way back to the airport)

I'm Canadian and as much we like to tell the world how open and welcoming we are, there is a heck of a lot of opposition to gay marriage. The current argument here isn't that it will lead to puppy love, but that it will open the doors for polygamy. Hahahahaha, let's pretend we don't already have that community of breakaway Mormons (not recognized or sanctioned by the LDS church) with adolescent "plural wives" hidden away in the BC hills. Seriously, though, I don't get the logic. Seeing same-sex couples get married doesn't make me want to pick up an extra spouse of either gender. Then again, maybe I just don't like sharing. And while I'm sort of on the subject of Canadian openmindedness (or lack thereof), have any of you driven through Saskatchewan? Pro life billboards beside the highway. I'm not trying to slam Canada - I love my country - but, contrary to what many Americans think, we aren't all left coast granolas wearing birks and hemp, singing protest songs. This isn't the liberal promised land - except maybe in Vancouver and Victoria. ;) I guess I am just trying to say that Americans don't have the market cornered on hate. It is everywhere, and religious intolerance has a long global history. Can you ever really escape it?
Sorry for taking up so much space.

[kinneret]

36.

As an expat Canadian who moved to the US to marry her man, I have to tell you that this post rocked.
I've told my husband that the minute they legislate against abortion on a Federal level, I am leaving this great land and not coming back. And I mean it. As it is, we are contemplating leaving for Canada. We have DH's 16 year old son who we don't want to become cannon fodder.

Canada has its faults and its foibles - it has its divisions, squabbles and bickering - but it is far less radicalized than the US these days. It's looking better and better all the time.
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/bljesusland.htm

[Rose]

37.

Fantastic post.

[Amanda]

38.

First off, BRAVO! I couldn't agree with you more about gay marriage. I have a lesbian sister who is an absolutely beautiful person inside and out. AND, I think people who discriminate are assholes. Plain and simple. Those bumper stickers... they make me want to yank my hair out in giant clumps. I try to practice tolerance. But it's damn hard.

Secondly, your site is blocked at my place of employment as of last Monday. And guess why? When I try to pull you up, I get a giant "TASTELESS, FORBIDDEN" across my scream. Aren't you proud? You're right up there with porn! Way to go! ha.

[Dana]

39.

ufff as an Episcopalian I can't tell you how awful it is to see the church you love ripped apart over the gay issue. how people can sit in church of all places and decide a certain group of people are somehow 'worser' sinners than they are is beyond me.

my MILs rector told us gay marriage is just a step to make the molestation of boys socially acceptable. CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT?

the government should stay OUT of our bedrooms, gun racks, business and pocket books.

[Lisa S (& Riley, Bella, & Adelyn)]

40.

Every time I think I am actually moderate I realize that I'm really fucking liberal. I just keep thinking that I'm moderate because my ideas make so much sense that I don't understand why everyone else doesn't believ in them too. WTF is wrong with gay marraige anyway?

I'm just really fucking liberal. Thank God I'm not alone.

[mortimer's mom]

41.

i'm Canadian and jewish. My religious beliefs are that homosexual marriages shouldn't be sanctioned by my Rabbi or congregation. My HUMAN beliefs are than any two consenting adults should be allowed to form a union, a partnership recognised and protected by law.

and that is at the heart of my frustration with most of the opponents of gay marriages. 90% of the time, they use the Bible to oppose it. But the thing is: WE HAVE SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. you simple cannot use the Bible to make law. not everyone believes in the Bible.

[Ellen]

42.

Sing it, sister! I'll never get it, either.

[Lisa T.]

43.

I'm grateful that the founding men *and women [as we know wives have quiet an influence on our husbands(thank you Abigail Adams)] were able to see, even as they owned slaves and decimated the already populated lands with their beliefs and flora and fauna, when establishing laws and rights that the world was ever changing and the Supreme Law of the Land, The Constitution, should also be able to ever change. Checks and balances are always supposed to be in place. I am scared currently, however, because the balance is off in all areas. I would never want it to be all Democrate either. It isn't balanced. The down fall of a Democratic Republic is majority rules... majority (as in current elections) can mean 49/50% Damn that sure does leave a lot of the population's needs unmet. I dito the previous comments.
People can enter into millions of different types of contracts. Why can people enter into contracts of staying together? To actually create sanctity of the American Family would it not be better to allow people to make commitments to each other, thus it seems it would follow with all people being able to look to a solid partner for love and support in committed, contracted relationships people will be more settled and directed toward the conservative's "ideal" family?
Oh good lord, why are people so afraid? It makes my heart hurt.

[expat]

44.

Ah, lovey, move to Australia, where you can be solid middle of the road or even tend to the right.

I can't understand how you nice people can stand living in such a facist country.

[amy]

45.

Cripes. I did not know that, that $$ is coming into Canada for the sole intent of promoting HATE.

[R]

46.

Amen, sister. Woohoo screaming liberals!!!

[Gina]

47.

Well said... could've written the post myself. It's rare that I come across another person with my views on drugs and prostitution too! You rock, as usual.

And an only semi-related question... might I have permission to print out some of your entries and the comments to give to students in a class I'm taking? Last night in class we started a debate on abortion and I'd really like to use some of the stuff that came up here to refute the prof. It's really great... he's anti-choice, and apparently trying to persuade the entire class to follow his lead (a class of mostly young, impressionable minds... another issue completely). See if I'll let that happen! Mwahaha. Anyway, do you have rules about distribution and stuff like that? I don't know blog-land etiquette or copyright rules or anything, forgive my ignorance. If you'd like, email me and let me know. =)

[Ren]

48.

Miriam and Moxie,

Absolutely the most important message in the Bible is that of love....loving God and loving our fellow human beings. I hate it that Christians are so petty and hypocritical in general. I also hate it that many Christians seem to think of homosexuality as a sin that is somehow worse than being prideful or dishonest or any other thing that they themselves are guilty of.

That being said, while I am familiar with your interpretation of Scripture (regarding whether or not homosexual sex is right or wrong), it is not the one that I hold. Thank you for respecting my right to hold that view.

If had to "die on a hill" for a belief, it would certainly be the one of loving others. I'm sick of the divisiveness and "I'm right and you're wrong" mentality. If people want to do something that has no bearing on the rights of someone else, go for it. I really, really wish that people like Jerry Falwell would shut up and quit giving the rest of my fellow conservatives a bad rep.

[Sam]

49.

Cecily, I liked this post so much that I made my husband read it, along with the recent article at Mollie's about Americans voting with their feet and emigrating to Canada. We both wholeheartedly agree with you, and find ourselves thinking more and more about leaving this country. I live in VA, and our lovely state legislature just passed a law requiring people, teens mostly, to wear their pants at a certain height or else face a fine of $50. Which to pay, their parents would have to take off of work to appear in court. Imagine, a fucking dress code for the state?!? As I live in a city that is in the top ten in the country for high murder rates, I for one am glad that the law enforcement will be spending their time and out tax dollars on being the fashion police instead of the real problems our city and state face. Thank you conservatives! (For the record, my entire family except me is conservative and they think that this is ludicrous).

Anyway, my husband and I are looking to book a trip to Vancouver as a scouting expedition. We also cannot bear to pay our taxes here anymore knowing it is being spent of things we 100% disagree with.

Sam

[Christine]

50.

Agree agree agree. With all of it.

The day after Fox aired the ridiculous Who Wants to Marry a Millionaire, there was an opinion piece in our paper about how gay marriage would destroy the sanctity of the institution. Uhhhhhh...what?? As opposed to what the heterosexuals have managed to do to it?

[DLG in Mich]

51.

Preach, sister! Love this post. I'm de-lurking to say that you're a great writer and your hubby is *too* darn cute.

[Mel]

52.

Awesome post Cecily. I couldn't agree with you more!

~Mel

[akeeyu]

53.

Yeah.

As much as I don't get why people think gay marriage affects straight marriage, I REALLY don't get why gay Canadian marriage affects, um, anyone who isn't in Canada.

I mean, really, who is gay marriage hurting? Nobody.

If they want to impact the world, why aren't American conservatives sending money to impoverished countries for lifesaving medical assistance, rather than tilting at this assinine windmill?

[Jen/VintageUterus]

54.

This country is getting, well, scary as hell.

Who's fucking business is it how people live their lives? When did this stop being a free country? Gay marriage? HELL YES.

I agree with you 100% on everything you've said here. Big surprise from a loud mouth liberal like moi.

We've all got to KEEP YELLING about this shit and keep informed on the sneaky political agendas that are surfacing all over this country lately. Especially women's reproductive rights issues.

Okay, I'm hogging your comments for a rant, sorry, Cecily.

But I can't believe that moron got back in office. I've noticed, even in solid blue L.A, that BUSH stickers showed up on cars AFTER the election. This goes along with one of the things that has been bugging the crap out me lately... the idea that the election was a LANDSLIDE. NO IT WASN'T!!

Further, when the hell did republican = blue collar/working families/farmers?? WTF?? Moral values??? Don't get me started on that exit polling. Moral values means bombing the shit out of one of the poorest countries in the world FOR NO FUCKING REASON? Those are not my moral values.

I must stop.. so as not to cause heart attack.

Thank you for using your space for a little Liberal Agenda.

Kiss.

[evieballerina]

55.

Cecily, I love you... will you marry me? Oh wait, that's not legal.

I seriously can't understand what is so threatening about gay marriage or homosexuals in general. OK, so some believe it is against God's law... but we don't all even agree on what God's law actually is. I mean, I have a best friend who was raised Church of Christ who thinks I'm going to hell because I'm Catholic. Isn't the whole thing a little ridiculous? I don't understand how it *hurts* anyone to allow people to live the lifestyle they choose. If you don't like homosexuals, don't be their friend. Why would you want them to suffer for your personal beliefs? It makes Christians look mean and spiteful, not warm and accepting. And I don't want to be a part of that or a community that teaches it.

[Amyesq]

56.

Well, you know how I feel about gay marriage as a Civil Rights issue, since I posted about it before. And logically, it doesn't make sense that the fundamental right to marry should be taken away from a large part of the population. It is especially prejudicial when gay couples have to spend quite a bit of money to create legal contracts to provide themselves and each other with the same rights that heterosexuals can obtain easily and inexpensively by simply getting married. And even then, they are not receiving the full rights a spouse would under the law.

My friends and I foresee a time, several years in the future, where we will look back with astonishment and say "Can you remember when they didn't let two people of the same sex marry?" And our grandkids will say "Wow, what was it like living back then?"

[Irina]

57.

Two very thin books:
1) All things allowed under Republicans
2) All things NOT allowed under Democrats...

Where do I stand?

Somewhere in the middle...
NOTE: Though a conservative, I reserve my right to make fun of everybody, other conservatives and liberals, men and women, gay and straight. That's my political position! EVERYONE has something to be laughed about! ; )

[Marlou]

58.

Well honey, you are quite welcome here in Holland! Where gays can marry (and suffer like the rest of us, like Dolly Parton once wonderfully remarked), soft drugs and prostitution are (almost) legal, and we DO take care of our elderly and sick. And - god beware - euthanasia is legal! (I know this shocks US people immensely). But then you may want to think long and hard, as the country is entirely flat, very densely populated and it rains a lot!

Anyway, great post.
Love
Marlou

[Pilgrim/Heretic]

59.

Wow, Evieballerina pointed me to this post and I'm glad I came. Moxie, right on that the Bible came out of a specific historical context, and humans have interpreted it in very different ways at different moments, depending on their particular needs. There are some passages that may be read as being anti-homosexual - I'm with Moxie on this one, but Ren, I do fully recognize and defend your right to interpret these differently. God has not personally explained his position on this to me, so I'm not going to be so presumptuous as to think I know what he meant. At the same time, though, the Bible also sanctions slavery and stoning people to death. Are we to follow these guidelines as well?

Over the last year or two I have come to identify myself as *not* Christian, simply because I do not want to be associated with the kind of judgmental, spiteful, and even hateful attitudes I see among so many people who identify themselves as Christian. (I do value the example and teachings of Jesus himself, but that seems to have little to do with what most Christians are after these days.) In any case, Ren, it's very encouraging to see posts like yours, that help me believe/remember that Christians really can be loving and accepting people - and Evie falls into this camp as well. Thank you both.

[Dawn]

60.

Three things:

1. If you're going to use the argument that denying homosexuals legal marriage preserves the sanctity of marriage, then you have to also outlaw divorce.

2. If anybody really knew what God was thinking, they would pay attention to what Jesus taught, that is, to love one another unconditionally. It should also be noted here that those who claimed to know what God was thinking at that time were the ones who had Jesus killed because he hung around with prostitutes and sinners in general.

3. Love you Cec. Every day. *Dawn*

[Expat]

61.

"if there were some way for oil companies to make money from gay marriage, the GOP would be all in favor of it."

I love you Charlie.

[Maryann]

62.

A guy I work with here in TX wanted to marry a lovely gal he met on the internet who lived in U.K. She came here and our INS put her through complete hell trying to prove that she was really in love with him, and she should be allowed to stay in the U.S., marry the love of her life, and work to help support the family they hope to have.

All this for a heterosexual couple, and a gal from a country that is *supposedly* our "best friend" - at least as far as the war-support thing goes.

Following that thought, I have only ever heard one good argument against gay marriage. Another guy who works with my hubby said that he'd marry a man in a heartbeat, just to be able to live and work in the U.S. without all the INS hassle he has to go through now.

Hmmm.... well it gave me something to think about anyway.

I'm as liberal as the rest of the folks posting here. I don't think it's right to legislate one group's beliefs just because they happen to be in the majority - for now. I DO believe that what goes around comes around, and that this whole unbalance WILL eventually balance out again. (That is, when my deeply entrenched cynicism lets up a bit...) Let's just hope we all make it til things balance out again - without landing in Guantanimo Bay as enemy combatants.

Fabulous post.

[Julie]

63.

Wow - another subject close to my heart! Just the other day, at work, one of my coworker told me he can't wait till he can marry his partner of 15+ years. I just looked at him and said "you can't do that!" He looked at me funny and asked why. I told him "don't you watch the news? You are going to fuck up my marriage". The two of us had a really good laugh over that. The effect gay marriage will have on my marriage is the joy my husband and I get from seeing two people in love.

It's so sad that these idiots are in power with their heads firmly planted up their asses.

[Robin]

64.

YES!!!! You post is perfect. THANK YOU for speaking out. We are doing so from our little corner of the world too. Get enough of us together and maybe, just maybe, we can get throught the current b.s.

[Menita]

65.

Hear, hear!

"People say that allowing gay marriage will cause a disintegration of the American Family."

Can someone explain to me how allowing two people who love each other and want to commit to each other for the rest of their lives undermines, in any way shape or form, the values that are behind the American Family, namely: loving people forging a commitment to each other for the rest of their lives?

Charlie's right - the simplest way around this might just be to find a way to tie in gay marriage to oil revenues. Or fighting terror. End of problem.

[thisgirl]

66.

I second everything you said. Everything.
Who are we to make life choices for other people? It's quite an ego that believes that he can make better choices for an individual than that said individual can make for himself. Quite an ego.

[Lisa]

67.

Cecily,
Took my daughters to see Gloria Steinem the other night. Great speech. I really wanted them to hear her, because I felt like they are so uneducated on the women's movement. Its just not as visible as when I was a kid. The only downer was all the people holding the poor taste pro-life pictures outside. We had to walk through them. My ten year old said "Don't they know that that could make all the women who have abortions feel bad?" You see even with her limited understanding of all that choice entails, she still had compassion. Why can't the grown-ups get it?

So you said your mom used to take you to things as a kid, what do think bad or good? So far, we only take our kids to MLK stuff and one anti-war. Gloria was the most radical thing I have taken them to. Okay, they have been to a gay wedding too. They are going to be Republicans to rebel against me aren't they?

[Erin]

68.

The controversy over Gay marriage, in my opinion, is a political game. Even in the most liberal France, a law supporting gay marriage would never be adopted. Instead, the language of the law was changed to include any two people who were living together as a family. So if you were living with your elderly mother, for example, or your gay life-partner, you would be eligible to obtain the rights of a civil union, you would be acknowledged as each other's next of kin in all matters. Imagine how much this would help people.

As long as the fight is specifically over marriage, people who want to be acknowledged as a legal couple, with all the legal rights of a married man and woman, will never win their civil rights. I don't believe that the fight is over civil unions, I don't see how they can constitutionally be denied that. But the word marriage, like it or not, holds way too much meaning for people, and it isn't going to change. It's a lot easier to get people emotionally charged up over protecting the "idea" of marriage, than is to get them to fight over the idea of civil union. It may just be semantics, but look at how much power this one word wields. It's too bad it's not quite as simple as ignorant bigots who want to deny people their rights v. those who want the world to be a love fest.

[Julie]

69.

Thank you for this post, and thanks to your readers for their comments. I am one of those "intolerant" liberals right now - can't help it, just too angry to give an inch to the other side. Sometimes i just cant WAIT for the world to change (because it will) because I know the Repugs will have such a hard time with it. I look forward to watching them have a hard time.

[AyEnDeeAreEeAyAitch]

70.

I totally agree with the marriage thing. I love me some gays too!

[Debe]

71.

I knew we were twins, seperated at birth.
I agree, I agree, I agree
and I really agree with the poster who said there are a lot of US out here, we just have to speak up and get organized. We need bumper stickers! We need to get the truth out.
My god, in Texas, it's horrible, the bumper stickers are on every SUV out here.
Oh and, totally off topic, but I dreamt you and I went on a cruise together. Man that was fun!

[Beth]

72.

Bumper stickers?

http://www.whitehouse.org/

http://www.cafepress.com/bettybowers

Oh, there's so many more! Personal favorite find of the day? "Protect marriage, ban heterosexual divorce."

But this was a close second! "Osama opposes marriage equality too."

Rant on, Cecily!

[Colleen]

73.

I want to say that I completely agree with you and it is very important that you speak up. Thank you.

Here is another perspective. I know that you wrote a post a few weeks back about seeing hotel Rwanda some time back and I think it is worth thinking about in light of the issues you raise here.

I just returned from Rwanda last night and was completely blown away by the people. Here is a nation where neighbors brutally murdered one another in shocking numbers. It is a tragedy beyond imagining and yet they are absolutely committed to forgiving and working through a painful process of genuine reconciliation. Everyone seems to understand that forgiveness helps the victims as much as those requiring forgiveness. I met so many people of all ages who are giving all of their energy to work for something better.

What a shocking contrast to the anger and cynicism that our nation turned to in response to our own tragedy. I found it humbling, inspiring and infuriating all at once.