To Church or not to Church?

So I have a weird collection of stuff percolating about in my head today. Well, maybe not that weird. Mostly things like heritage and culture and identity. Crap that comes up, I guess, when you’re going to be a parent.

I hope I haven’t already written about this. If you’re bored, skip it. I’m just too damn tired today to scan my blog and make sure I’m not repeating myself.

Something I’ve struggled with as an adult is the fact that I have no cultural identity. I’m a typical American WASP—and an American mutt. I’m, from what I can tell from the various family trees, German, Welsh, and British. My husband is German, Irish, and Hungarian, so our children will be an even worse mush of European genetics.

I grew up (as I said the other day) in Albuquerque, New Mexico. We were poor when I was a kid, so my mom and I lived in what would now be called “the barrio.” Brown children, both Native American and Mexican, surrounded me and as I say in this poem I wrote about this subject, I stood out like a tumor, with my pale eyes and sun bleached hair and chronically sunburned nose. All the kids around me were bilingual, and I just felt so left out, dull, boring.

As I’ve grown older, I’ve developed a kind of nostalgia for other cultures. The movie Moonstruck makes me wish I were Italian (yeah, I know, it’s totally a stereotype, and Cher isn’t even Italian). Attending my friend’s baby naming ceremony or another friend’s Bat Mitzvah makes me long to be Jewish. All that history!

A friend of mine from high school is just now exploring her Jewish roots after spending time as both an agnostic and a devout Christian. She suggested I pick something from my heritage and embrace it, but for god’s sake—I’m a WASP! What’s to embrace? Colonialism? Giving Native Americans small pox infested blankets? Killing the Pagans?

I flirted with being a Pagan for a while, and while a lot of the concept of worshiping the Earth appeals to me, the people who practice Paganism, at least the ones I’ve met, are a bunch of annoying flakes. If I hear another suggestion to dance around a fire “skyclad” to welcome a new season, I’ll puke. It’s just being naked in public, people!

My mother was raised as a Methodist, and with the exception of a brief tour of duty in an evangelical Christian church while I was in middle school, my mother brought me up Methodist as well. I know that going to church is not for me any longer, but I’ve found myself thinking a lot about what I did get out of all those days of Sunday School and listening to sermons.

As a kid, I loved Sunday School. I liked my teachers, and I enjoyed the “youth activities” we did, such as having a slumber party/starve-in to raise money for hungry people around the world (we locked ourselves in the church and didn’t eat and played games until we all passed out from hunger—we took pledges from people based on how long we could hold out). I feel like I did learn some things in church about compassion and caring and viewing the world as larger than just me, my family, my town.

Oh, and the singing. I loved being in choir, I loved singing hymns, I loved that silly thing Methodists (and some others, I’m told) sing, “Praise God from whom all blessings flow…” Getting a solo in the church choir was a dream come true, something I strived for, learned to be proud of.

My spiritual center now lies in the rooms of recovery, where we all are free to believe what and how we want. If only we sang! Well, maybe not. Singing alcoholics…hmmm, not so much.

But my children won’t get out of meetings what I do, even if they attend with me on a regular basis and hang out with other recovering adults. They won’t get that sense of the larger world that I got through my Sunday School escapades. And they certainly won’t get to sing.

There are options, in the area I live, for a church-like experience for those of us uncomfortable with Christianity. There are the Unitarians, who as far as I can tell have a fast and loose general belief in God, and are very politically active. There are a lot of Quakers in my town, and the same can be said for them, but they don’t, as far as I know, ever sing.

While I’d love my children to get the positive aspects of this stuff, there were negative aspects too. Like my Sunday School teacher who asked us if we’d heard about a woman being raped at the local library. When we said we had (we were all in 8th grade, and it was BIG news in our area), she proceeded to tell us, solemnly, that the reason it happened was because the woman was wearing a see-through shirt.

There was also the mandate that all the children had to go and say hello to Paul, the quadriplegic, every week before services started. While I didn’t mind, surely he must have hated to have to chat politely each week with a parade of small children. It feels like pandering, now, in retrospect.

The only other thing from my childhood that provided a sense of both community and the world at large was folk music. My mom was a hippie, and a folk singer, and some of my fondest childhood memories are from watching her perform and from all the various concerts we attended, like Buffy Saint-Marie; Peter, Paul, and Mary; and Pete Seeger. I got so much out of those! Besides the fact that these performers were political activists, they always did something special for children, and there was more of that singing in public! I just loved it as a kid.

While I’m sure I can scrounge up some concerts to attend, I’ll have to do it without my darling husband. My mother and I took him to one Peter, Paul and Mary concert and he wandered through the crowds alternately asking, “Who here voted for Bush [Bush 1, that is]?” or “Who’s got the acid?” His parents voted for Nixon, so he doesn’t have a lot of, er, respect for the whole folk music thing. So unless they did up Woody Guthrie, he won’t be joining me at any concerts.

I’m in a quandary about all this stuff. I’d love to hear what you’ve done. Let me know, will ya?

 

Comments

[Tammy]

1.

I'm not religious at all. I came by my agnosticism the hard way, after a self-prescribed dose of born-again Christianity as a child. (What kind of child independently pursues born-again Christianity, you may well ask. Good question.)

My "religions", if you will, are books and nature. I love both with a passion, and that's what I'll pass along to my children.

As for your folk roots, I totally hear you. My mom was a huge folkie, too. Some of it must have rubbed off, because if the critter that's gestating right now turns out to be a girl, we're naming her Arlo. (What kind of parent names their girl-child Arlo, you may well ask. Another good question. This is why I'm agnostic. I'm all about questions. Answers are not my forte.)

[Melanie]

2.

It sounds as if you'd like the UU thing.

As for us . . . we're all mixed up. Spouse was raised fundamentalist christian, and is now agnostic. I was raised nothing, but dabbled in christianity and Wicca before discovering Judaism, and have since been stalled in the conversion process for a couple years. Which is this sticky thing of a lapsed not-quite-jew trying to create a jewish identity in a child who isn't jewish, with a grandmother who hates any mention of god and a grandmother who feels she's betraying her grandchild by not introducing him to jesus.

We try not to think about it. ;o)

[lisa]

3.

My Irish-German-British-French Canadian-Chocktaw mom was raised Catholic, my Irish & misc European dad Mormon, both hated their religions. We were brought up religion-less with Christian holidays (Santa and the Easter Bunny, no Jesus). When I was about 8 or 9 I went to youth groups with a Christian friend sometimes, but pretty much thought they were freaks. All that talk about dead people, y'know.

V is American-born Vietnamese, raised by Buddhist parents, and is agnostic. I would have no problems converting to Buddhism, but he's not too interested. As for Vietnamese traditions, well, beyond Tet he doesn't really know most of them (we upset his parents horribly by getting engaged without a ceremony, which neither of us even knew we were supposed to do!).

Hmm, yes, so little Visa may also be culturally adrift. Except there's one bonus- living in Hawaii, with part-Asian keiki, we'll be able to celebrate Boys' Day and/or Girls' Day, Obon, and a slew of other Japanese/Chinese/Korean/Filipino/Hawaiian holidays. And if they show any interest or talent, hula could be religion.

So, advice. I really don't have much, except that if you do what seems right and natural, it'll all work out fine. I think you'll come upon family activities that everyone will enjoy and create lots of good memories for your boys.

[Sam]

4.

It's funny you posted this today, as my friend and I were just talking about how we were somewhat jealous of people who had a strong connection to something; be it religious or cultural. We both said we're "mutts" too, and we surmised that it was up to us to create certain traditions for our children so that they can develop a sort of familial identity, if nothing else.

When my son was born, I looked into having him christened at the church in which my husband and I were married. This church was also the same church in which I attended youth group and was confirmed. To make a long story short, the religious guy who gives the sermons (what are they called? pastors? preachers? priests? I feel weird saying any of those as I am uncomfortable with labels) was not the same guy who married us, which was too bad because he was cool and this guy wasn't. So we dropped the christening altogether much to the disappointment of my extended family (my parents could give a shit less, but my aunt; well, we still hear about it).

I had a hard time standing in front of a congregation proclaiming that my son would grow up believing in Jesus, when neither my husband nor I do. I have struggled with this for two years now because I feel that growing up and having the youth group experience made me understand what church was like, and although I choose not to attend church and am pretty much unitarian in my beliefs, I want my son growing up with the same experiences I had. I feel he'll have a better understanding of people who do turn to religion. And maybe, he'll decide that he's religious too, which will be fine with me. The problem, though, as I see it, is that my husband and I will have to start going to church in order for him to have said experiences. OH MY GOD how I don't want to listen to any of that hoo-ha they say in church. How can I raise a boy to understand religion and be understanding of those who are religious when his father and I suck at that ourselves? I wish I was born Jewish, as that is a religion that I can get behind, in theory of course. Labels, remember? ;)

[Anne]

5.

I’m all over the place myself

Mom’s Polish Roman Catholic and never knew much or shared much about Polish culture with my brother and I.

On my Dad’s side, my Grandpa was the 4th generation born in Hawai’i and most of our family traditions relate to “local” or “kama’aina” culture here in Hawai’I (a mix of haole, Asian, and Hawaiian). As a haole (Caucasian) kid who wasn’t a military brat (= growing up on or near base with a lot of other kids who would be a lot like me) I was very much a minority and I stuck out like a sore thumb. But because I was “local” I had an in – I spoke Pidgin English, ate poi, ran around barefoot so at least I was “allowed” to hang with the local kids and poked fun at the tourists and military kids. Unfortunately there was/is still a lot of white guilt going around and even thought Hawaii is a blended culture we still have our problems.

My Grandma, well she was a big time WASP from Roxbury NY, could trace her genealogy back to the Mayflower, and she belonged to all these family societies that had regular family gatherings and kept track of family genealogies. So while I don’t have much in the way of traditions form this side, I sure do know a lot about it.

Both grandparents and my Dad were Episcopalian, or as my Dad likes to call it, Catholic lite. Growing up my brother and I were both baptized Catholic and went to Catholic school, not because of any strong convictions on my family’s part, but because they were just better schools. Esentially we were raised religion-less except for school. As a result most of my spirituality is couched from a Catholic perspective but the only real connection I maintain to the church is an occasional desire to go to church because I enjoy the ritual of it and a reverence for Mary (you know it’s the whole goddess thing). To add a little flavor to the spiritual mix two of my best friends growing up are Buddhist, my SIL is part Thai and was sort of brought up Buddhist, and my Hubby is almost full Native Hawaiian and although he was brought up as a Christian there was always a lot of traditional beliefs such as ancestor worship as part of the mix. Well now the Hubby’s dropped all the Christianity and we both look at things from more of a Hawaiian spiritual frame of mind. I’m very much in the same boat Sam is in, I think in gained a lot of understating from going to a religious school and I’d like my kids to have that, but I have a hard time seeing myself in church much less my husband.

(Oh, and “Hi!” to Lisa, another Hawai’i girl how cool is that)

[theothertammy]

6.

www.usguu.org

There are a few other UU churches in Philly. All the benefits of church without the bigotry of Christians. http://uua.org/ has a "store locator" link that let's you find the one closest to your zip code.

[Kathleen]

7.

My heritage is Irish-Catholic, Irish-Catholic, Irish-Catholic and, here comes the diversity, Scottish-Catholic, in those proportions.

My husband's family is English-German Protestants with, to their deep shame, a little bit of Irish (but the Protestant kind! Of course!) My family hasn't been here that long, but my husband's family has been here forever and they kept marrying other English and/or German Protestants.

Until my husband married me. So, there.

I left the Catholic church shortly before our marriage (but not because of my marriage. I did it because I love women, gays/lesbians. I hate old, white guys telling me what what's about my uterus. Among many, many, many other things...but I'm not bitter! Hahaha!)

It's kind of scary to turn your back on the only documented religious tradition in your family history. I sometimes still go to Church to light candles and pray to Mary. Or to go to Mass. It freaks my husband out and gives my one living Grandmother false hope. I should probably knock it off. But I won't.

I was looking for a religious community that did not have a mandatory statement of religious belief. I came to find out that that "statement of belief" is called a "creed" (my parents must weep at the amount of cash they paid to send me to Catholic schools.) But I thought that didn't exist. I, and my husband, lived a completely religion free life for about five years (including being married by a JP at my Aunt's house.)

Then I gave birth to this God-seeking child. When he was three he would make happily declare things like, "God is a Mommy! And she is watching me right now." Sometimes God was a boy or a tree or a playmate from his dreams. The boy was always in the mood to talk about his great friend, God. It well and truly freaked my husband and I out as the one thing we were NOT raising him with was a religious education.

When my son turned four, he started inviting himself along to other kids Sunday School classes. A good friend of mine, a Southern Baptist, suggested I better get a handle on what my son was learning about organized religion before someone else did it for me (I still love her for telling me that instead of trying to "save" my son.)

Anyway, as you might have guessed, our family became UUs nearly 8 years ago and haven't looked back. The sole selling point was that UUism is a non-creedal religion. Since then, I've some to love it for a lot of different reasons. When I became a UU, I pledged to engage is a "free and responsible" search for truth. From there, I was on my own. I know Jewish-UUs, Christian-UUs, Pagan-UUs, etc.

I consider myself just a UU...me and God, we're working it out, sometimes I don't believe at all, other times I feel a seed taking plant. I'm learning to let go and trust the journey as worthy in and of itself. Which, for a control freak like me, has been like learning to make a pie from scratch...with my feet.

You've got some time to decide this, you'll reach the right decision for you and your family.

[Sanorah]

8.

Ok.. i just have to blog along this line too, so you can check out my replay on my site!

[Michelle]

9.

I am struggling with the same issuess. Now 22 weeks pg with our daughter.

I was raised Jewish but even from childhood found I didn't buy into the belief system. Closed minded-ness of my religious education teachers and many of my relatives also turned me away. I couldn't agree with not recognizing that other religions could be valid and ignoring the dominant cultural beliefs in this country (since we were the Chosen People and should be above it).

I stopped going to services as soon as my parents weren't able to force me anymore. I realize I have always been an atheist and now am comfortable with that. Although I did like the singing, particularly the Hebrew songs

Despite being 3/4 WASP and only 1/4 Irish, my husband was raised Catholic and taught by nuns. He was turned off by "The Church" as an institution but still pretty much believes in God and Christ although not some of the particulars.

I do think I owe it to our child to at least start from some sort of religious foundation (from which she can subsequently rebel, of course).

We are leaning towards UU although I know that having a grandchild who goes to a church will freak out my parents and extended family. After reading your blog, I am starting to feel a little bad about denying her the Jewish culture (we are now in the Deep South, 1000 miles from my family) but maybe that will be something she can discover on her own.

Thanks for posting this and making me think a little more.

[peach]

10.

You know, the more I read your blog, the sadder I get that I don't live near you so we can be friends. Because it seems like I would really love being your friend.

My sister and I were raised Catholic, but we were never confirmed. I left the Church by choice when I was 12 when I couldn't get any satisfactory answers about my father's untimely death. I think my sister just got bored, and being the scientific one in the family, thought it was a waste of time. She did, though, get married in the Catholic Church to please my mom, and to the irritation of her severely agnostic husband.

Over the years, I've explored spirituality and religions (you name it, I've studied it) and haven't really come to a comfortable conclusion. I'm not even sure if I believe in any god, much less "the God" everyone else is so het up about. Until last week when I was watching "Joan of Arcadia" and a whole bunch of new feelings emerged that led me to think maybe I was just ignoring God becuase I was so mad at him. It gets complex.

I asked my sister what she planned to do when her daughter (now 5) got old enough to start asking questions. She said she'd do whatever she could to teach her about religion - all religions - and let her find her own way. I worry a lot about that, to be honest. I'm afraid that someday, my adorable, smart little niece will ask me about God and what I think, and that I'll just confuse her, or worse, have her turn out to be like me, lost, confused, and feeling spiritually lonely and sometimes empty.

I love listening to folk music and believe it or not, old time gospel - those soul-wrenching hymns (usually associated with Baptists, I think) that evoke the same feeling as a high Catholic Latin Mass. I listen to them and then feel guilty, and jealous, wishing I could feel the same connection that the singers feel. I feel guilty when I sing them because I feel like I'm a fraud. It's tough. It's really tough.

But in the end, I think you know... you want to give your children the exposure and experiences you want them to have, that maybe you didn't, and let them find their own way. You want them to have the best tools and experiences to have a wonderful life... I think that spirituality should be no different. Give them tastes of everything and let them choose.

[liz]

11.

It's sad the Quakers in your area don't sing. I grew up in an amazing Quaker community even though I'm not technically Quaker (my mom is). We sang every Sunday before "meeting for worship" started. Quakers are generally an introverted bunch so the singing was less than loud and less than in tune but it still felt great. And I could go on forever about the amazing first day school (aka sunday school) experiences that I had and loved.

The Quakers I've met are generally liberal, environmentalist, human rights advocates, and pacifists, who have deep and personal belief in God in whatever form they feel most comfortable with. They are Christian without shoving it in your face. But above all they are welcoming, generous, accepting, loving, selfless people. They really follow the true spirit of Christianity, not the type of Christianity that says everyone is a sinner who needs to repent and we'll judge the hell out of you until you confess all of your sins and then we'll pity you for those sins and use them to feel superior to you. Instead Quakers strive to live everyday with genuine love and concern for others and a spirit of open-mindedness and acceptance of others.

So the thing I love most about Quakerism is that it taught me faith without forcing religion on me. It exposed me to that amazing sense of community you only ever feel in a place of worship, but it let me be free to set my own rules about what I believe in. Our Sunday school class even did a curriculum called "The Church Across the Street" where we went to services for almost any religion you could imagine and talked to the religious leaders of all different faiths to better understand how others view god, and faith, and religion.

So back to your actual question...I would do my own little "Church Across the Street" if I were you. What it sounds like you're actually looking for is a faith based community that you feel comfortable in regardless of the actual faith. So why don't you go to a few different churches in your area over the next month or two and try to find one that feels like it fits. I don't have children yet, but when I do I plan to expose them to religion and faith in the same way my parents exposed me. That way, when they reach adulthood they are able to actively choose whatever amount and type of faith that suits them, rather than feeling that they have to carry on a family legacy in something they may or may not believe in.

Oh and Quakers love folk music and hippies.

p.s. someone in another comment hinted that you're near Philly. If that's true then I know at least a few singing Quakers in your area. I grew up in Reading after all.

p.p.s. But really this is a totally personal choice that you need to make for yourself. I'm not trying to sell Quakerism here. I just wanted to share my experience and my thoughts.

[Cathy]

12.

I'm not a fan of organized religion and follow none although raised Christain. I find religions a fascinating study, however. I'd like my children to learn about various religions, gain appreciation for their individuality and how they came to be. But label themselves with one? Nah, there are too many roads to Texas, if you know what I mean.

[Elizabeth]

13.

I've read your blog for many months and listened closely. I am the mom of two boys (now 10 and 6). I was raised Unitarian (which, in the old days, was far less flexible {read: waffling} than it is today -- I was basically taught the Christian doctrine with acceptance for variation.).My husband was raised Roman Catholic, including private schooling, and has since rejected that doctrine entirely. I've worked really hard with my kids to help them understand the vitally important distinction between religion and spirituality. I think that's a distinction this world is reluctant to make. I also have a private belief (not shared with my kids) that religion is behind much of the evil acts and violence in the world today.
I've shared my very heartfelt trust with my children that God is there but not necessarily accurately defined by other people. I've helped them understand what different religions believe and why some of the those beliefs end up harming the peacefulness of the world, while some are inherently peaceful and accepting. They get it, trust me. Yes, a few times they asked me why they don't go to church each Sunday, why they don't go to CCD every week. I've tried to open my hands at those moments and tell them how strongly I believe in the spirit and its strength and the unique connection each person has to God. And how that connection doesn't have to be defined by a religion.
For all I know they'll grow up as Fundamentalist Baptists. But I had to teach them what I believed, or it wouldn't have worked.
So there's my thoughts.

[SusieJ]

14.

Jakob will be baptised in my mother's German-speaking Lutheran Church, as my mother wishes.

Then he'll be raised Quaker at the meeting across from your evil midwives, which will also make my mother happy. Jorj is Quaker, I am uncertain. We were married there, we are developing true friendships there. For such a small group, there are a good number of chubby baby thighs, toddlers, kids, teens, college kids, young adults, "real" adults -- anyone older than me by five or ten years -- and seniors (including one woman about to be sentenced for civil disobedience last fall, how cool is that?). It's a comfortable and often challenging, thought-provoking group. Jorj is happy to be back among Quakers. I do see some of the Quakers searching for ritual and tradition, and trying to fit that into their own framework of Quakerism. Some are Christ-centered, some are pagan, some are practically agnostic.

Liz is right:meetings around Philly tend to be liberal, like most of the meetings in Friends General Conference, although the other two national umbrella organizations are considered conservative. I don't think meetings around Philly would send you screaming.

Our meeting has intermittently had an effort to sing before meeting -- and some people sing in meeting rather than speaking. (Unprogrammed meetings sit in silence until anyone is moved by the light/spirit/creator/God to speak. Or sing.) Being tone deaf, I don't participate in the singing. There IS a testimony of silence.

[Amie]

15.

Well, I guess my comment will stick out like a sore thumb here :D We go to an evangelical Christian church. We love our church, and are very involved. We are part of a young marrieds group and we teach 4 year olds Children's Church and work in the nursery. However, our church doesn't shape our beliefs, we choose our church based on our beliefs.

[bj]

16.

this is an issue I struggle with as well. I don't have your problem of being a cultural mish-mash personal (I'm 100% asian indian).
But, I'm married to an american jew, and we're both committed athiests (Daniel Dennett's "Brights" -- he wanted to get people to give us a label so they'd understand that athiesm can be a belief, and not just an absence of belief). In my case the belief is that the world is governed by quantifiable principles, with no divinity. For me, this includes vague earth forces or pagan rituals, or any of the new age stuff that tries to incoporate vortexes . . . So, for me, those forms of "religion" don't work either.

We have two kids who are, as my daughter will say 1/2 Indian (and 1/2 Jewish) and 100% American. My daughter talks of "doing" hannukah, and understand that people don't have to celebrate the same things (she recently explained that to my parents, who explained that they don't "do" hanukah, but that they will celebrate with us).

But, I do want my children to have a sense of community and I see how religion provides that to those who believe (like Annie above). I think the answer is that we won't have an easy way of building our community, but that we just have to build it ourselves, finding people who share our believes and ideas and forming our own groups. We can't join something that already exists because by nature we're new, mongrels, mixes, oh yeah, "the great american melting pot."

But, you know, I believe, with all my heart in the value of the melting, that we really grow through the mishmash, and I hate homogeneity, so, I think we need to work, to make sure that a mix, doesn't mean homogenous, but with the freedom of not having to be rigid.

Bye the way, I'm a bonafide ethnic (brown skinned even), but I do not think your european mongrel mix is something you can't celebrate. Yes, the English colonized India where I'm from, and did truly bad things. But, they also stood against the Nazis, produced wordsworth and thomas hardy and jane austen. There is good and bad in all nations and cultures. It's always possible to find the good in yours and celebrate it, and speak out against the bad. And important not to fall into the trap of believing that the opressed (or colonized) are some how pure of heart.

bj

[Jen C]

17.

Hi - just came upon your site and was well...interested...so I read most of the posts - I guess I'd like to chime in about the religious issue. I was raised Catholic...oh brother:) anyway....being Catholic taught me a lot about dicipline and...hmm...the importance of rituals. Anyway, I'm now christian and have never felt happier..I know crazy right...but it's true...I guess I feel like I've finally got a purpose in life...I'm not just here to live..get married ..have kids ...get old...then die. I'm reading "the Purpose Driven Life" book from Rick Warren - and love it. I was watching Oprah one day ..when Winona Judd said she was reading it..then she cried and I thought ok...I'll read it...well I'm glad I did...Anyway - good luck w/everything...